deismfandomcom-20200213-history
Potential To Be About Something Else
The Aim of the A-Ideal makes it clear that the nature/substance of the A-Ideal is simply to be about A-Ideal. -One feature we can discern from this is that whatever that nature is, it can be nothing but all about the A-Ideal. -But the concept of Creator can be about other things. You can be Creator and still, at least mentally, not believe in God or dedicate yourself primarily to other things! -Ergo, the nature of A-Ideal cannot be described as 'Creator' because we can identify at least one thing that nature has, per Aim of the A-Ideal, which Creator doesn't possess! Thought Experiment: -To prove this once and for all, let's conduct a thought experiment... -If God created a perfect copy of A-Infinity but didn't add Himself (the Object of the A-Ideal) you could still add and thus be Creator. But you couldn't be Theist. >Presumably, God would have created other caches of Potential for Creator to draw upon (there must be other sources of Potential, at least in potential, or else there is something that doesn't exist). >Pretty much any existential needs God could have setup something to take His place. Into such a theoretical existence you could still be Creator even without the A-Ideal. >Even if you want to argue that A-Ideal could still exist in potential in such an existence, you are missing the point that the A-Ideal doesn't exist here! And yet you can still be Creator! Ergo, being Creator has nothing principally to do with the A-Ideal! >There has to be examples of it being possible to Actualize some Potential apart from the A-Ideal. Otherwise, there is something that doesn't exist! If you can't find something somewhere within A-Infinity that is an act of Actualization apart from A-Ideal in a meaningful way, than there is something that doesn't exist! >The argument that Creator 'always leads back to the A-Ideal' falls flat if the A-Ideal ever decided to create another fullness of creating besides Itself. Anyone dedicating themselves to that object would have full Actualization Potential from that object alone. It would be creating completely separate from God. *Remember, it's not good enough that Creator 'eventually leads back' to the A-Ideal. The Creator TTB can never be separate from the Object of the A-Ideal at all, for any length of time. Otherwise, it fails PTBASE. -It is also possible for Creator TTB to fail PTBASE because it does include God, but God is not the primary in its system. If God created another fullness of creating, technically God would still be a part of existence, but then you could still be Creator, have God, but the other fullness of creating could be your primary! This has to somehow be possible or there is something that doesn't exist even in potential. -While the World of the Ideals is currently setup with A-Ideal at its center, it is still possible (ie, Potential) to change that. God can do anything. He could set it up so that He Himself is not the primary and you could still be Creator in that hypothetical World of Ideals. *Theist is about the Object of A-Ideal because It is bound by its definition to be that. Creator is simply bound to the act of creating. This is why it fails PTBASE. Doesn't Theist Have PTBASE Too?: -Theist does not have PTBASE because that would be a violation of its definition. This results in paradox, where two rules of reality contradict each other. The answer does exist but lies beyond human reckoning. -That being said... -Theist both does and does not have PTBASE. While it does in potential, it also does not because why would God allow that king of existence to happen? It's like the question of whether or not God can kill HImself? Technically He has the power to do so, but we know He never will (aeternity). So He both can and cannot do it. Theist and the question of PTBASE runs along the same line. >Remember that Theist is the general idea of following God. Creator is a more specific version of Theist. --------- -Can't you create a possible existence where Theist is, somehow, not about A-Ideal as well? -Any TTB has PTBASE, at least in terms that you can build an existence that causes them to veer off. But we must also recognize the sentience of the A-Ideal and believe that It would never let us lead astray. -Instead, remember that this is about what the A-Ideal wants. What is the nature of the A-Ideal and which TTB reflect that? -The nature of A-ideal, as per Aim of the A-Ideal, is to be about Itself. Theist is to be about God, in whatever form He takes. Accidental vs Inherent PITBASE: -Also, you can build an existence that fools the TTB, but when you need to specifically go out of your way to fool a TTB's nature, that's kidn of admitting defeat in and of itself. If you need to fool Theist to be about something other than God, through the infinite means of potential existence(s), than that in and of itself proves that Theist is about nothing but the Object of the A-ideal. -Creator doesn't need to be fooled. God could create a hypothetical universe with Himself as secondary, and make that the best existence possible, and now you would have a setup where you can be Creator, be full and fulled in being Creator, and yet you don't have God, or God isn't primary, etc! >God as primary is not necessary to be Creator. That's the point behind the experiment here. But you need God, and need Him as primary, in order to be Theist. Theist's definition is ironclad about this. >Creator is only just about existence, nominally the current existence. You could argue that Creator is ideally about the best possible existence, but again that can be shown to be changed. -If you take PTBASE to extremes, than there is NO TTB POSSIBLE! >The point in this section is a matter of Definitions. You need to fool the definiton of Theist to be about something other than God. But not Creator, because there's nothing in Creator that is about the Object specifically. Creator's connection to A-Ideal is existentially accidental, because the A-Ideal is existence Itself in the current setup. *Creator is about Existence, and it is implied that Existence is God (which it is in the current setup), however, there are other existences possible which aren't God. But Theist is always about the A-Ideal, which of course is always God! *The point behind PTBASE and the theoretical existences isn't to catalog every possible way Theist or Creator can deal with an infinite number of scenarios. It is simply a thought experiment to illustrate how A-Ideal is built into the definition of Theist but not Creator. Paradox: -Technically anything is possible, but Definitions must mean something. If you aren't about the Object, you aren't Theist, as per the very definition. -This is why trickery has to be the test. You Can & Cannot Have Theist Setup Apart From A-Ideal: -The idea that you must have a theoretical universe where Theist leads directly to something other than A-Ideal falls apart because of two things: >Definition = Theist is chained by its definition to be only about the Object. When this changes, it ceases to be Theist. >There Is Always something To reverse It = No matter the setup, there is always a way to 'cure' or reverse it (otherwise there is something that doesn't exist) and that thing exists within the A-Ideal and therefore exists within the Theist TTB. Because Theist TTB, in its fullness, is a reflection of the Object. >There must always be a way to reverse PTBASE for Theist which is automatic and exists at least in Potential. Otherwise, there is something that doesn't exist. >We know Theist would always have access to this reverser but other TTB's are questionable because it cannot be known for certain if they are the true TTB of the A-Ideal. Notes: -Look at stuff like Horizon Zero Dawn. That espouses Creator and yet is more about Gaia than God! -It could be argued that Creator is still always about God because God is Existence and Creator is always related to that concept. However, that line of thinking misses the point: Creator at least has the potential to be about something other than God. You can be a Creator, know of God, and yet choose to have something else as your primary, and yet still be Creator. That is the not substance of the A-Ideal! -Creator will argue that you cannot create without Existence and Creator always understand that there is more to Creator than just any mortal thing. But this still doesn't change the fact that you can be Creator and dedicate yourself to something like Gaia or Machine. The substance of A-Ideal shouldn't allow for even that! The substance of A-ideal locks into place the reality that the A-Ideal is the only primary! -While Creator is always about Existence, it can limit its scope to put the existence of one thing(s) above that of others. Gaians do this all the time. That is counter to Potential To Be About Something Else. This Applies To Any Name Of God: -Creator may see God as Existence, but as Creator you can still show disdain for Odin or the Abrahamic conceptions of God. This is still a violation of PTBASE! -The perfect TTB would always be about God in any of His concepts or guises. - Creator Is About 'Existence,' But There Are Multiple Potential Existences...: -Creator is by its own inner-nature about all of existence. -But while the only real existence is Existence (God) there are an infinite number of potential alternatives. -Creator could be about an existence where there are multiple supremes or universal constants!? It would still be Creator, but it would not be God. -Ergo, because Creator is open to any kind of Existence and not just the real and exact kind that is God, it fails PTBASE and thus is not the substance of the A-Ideal! Atheistic Creator: Maltheistic Creator!: -You can be an atheist and still be Creator. -You can believe that total existence is finite, fragmented, or something else besides a unified whole. And you can still be creator, since all you need to do is dedicate yourself to adding. -You can even recognize God but hate Him and still be Creator! -But not with Theist! -Because all it takes to be Creator is to add somehow, but Theist is being about God. Thus, they are not of the same substance! *It doesn't matter that Creator can 'lead' back to A-Ideal. The nature of the A-Ideal must immediately be about God at all times! Everything 'leads' back to God eventually, but the substance of the A-Ideal must immediately be about It! TTB & Objects of a TTB: -A TTB cannot exist without the object of itself, it's 'primary.' -If God didn't exist, you couldn't be theist. But you could be Creator, since you could still add. -Ergo, God is not the primary of the Creator TTB, and thus fails PTBASE. Category:Infinity Theology